Programming/increments for snatch/cj for an Olyfting noob on the Supertotal programm

[Aldwyn]

So for example -

Monday: Volume on Back Squat and Bench Press, ramped up to the 5 RM for this week. Pull-ups, to the chest, weighted, smth like 4x6. Ab work, hyperextensions.

Tuesday: Lighter day on Oly lifts, probably trying hang versions. Definitely an important day for me, since i fail on the technique greatly. Some conditioning in the end, like dumbbell snatching (no kettlebells available here...).

Thursday: Intensity on Back squat and Bench press, same ramping as Monday, but the last set is 3 RM (the next week's 5 RM). Bit of biceps (weighted chin-ups) and triceps work (like 3x8 on both). More conditioning in the end.

Saturday: Heavy Oly day. Snatching to max single/double, Power Cleaning and Jerking to max, High Pulls after that (no Deadlifting, have a history of back problems with heavy deads...). Open to suggestions on the best set/rep scheme here.

[less relevant information]In 9 weeks, *ideal scenario*, progression on strength goes as following - bench press from 185 to 225 (5 lbs/week), squat from 235 to 315 (10 lbs/week), current maxes of 200 and 265 hit on 4th week. Might be a bit more realistic than it looks, because the 200 5RM bench was with feet on the bench (been benching like that for about a year, now planning to go back to normal benching. The last time i checked it adds about 10 lbs for me), and i've squatted more in the past (1RM of about 365 lbs, but powerlifting-style and with knee wraps, about 2 years ago). Current max is with shoulder-width stance, ass-to-grass.[/less relevant information]

So how should the Snatch and Clean&Jerk be programmed here? Since i only have one heavy day of Olyfting, should i try to max out on both in the same day? Glenn's article (the other one) states that Snatch and CJ should be about 60% and 80% of the back squat respectively.. well for me currently it's obviously not even a possibility. I lack any coaching and do power versions (short split snatch, power clean+short split jerk). 135lbs Snatch was veeery hard for me, 175 double on pc+jerk a bit better but still.

I was thinking about using the scheme from, again, one of the Glenn's articles, (http://www.pendlay.com/A-Training-Sy...ers_df_90.html), it uses 5 sets of doubles or 10 singles. But i'm unsure if it applies to the case when you max on both SN and CJ in the same day.

I also find that doing a high pull immediately before snatching or cleaning helps me a lot with using better technique. So probably 5 sets of 1 pull+2 snatches is what i'm looking at? Same with CJ?

How should the weight increase between heavy workouts (Saturdays)? 5lbs, 10lbs, percentage of weekly squat RM?

Tuesday is technique day, so the weight probably will be light enough to not be a relevant factor..

[stuartbartley]

Originally Posted by Aldwyn

So for example -



[less relevant information]In 9 weeks, *ideal scenario*, progression on strength goes as following - bench press from 185 to 225 (5 lbs/week), squat from 235 to 315 (10 lbs/week), current maxes of 200 and 265 hit on 4th week. Might be a bit more realistic than it looks, because the 200 5RM bench was with feet on the bench (been benching like that for about a year, now planning to go back to normal benching. The last time i checked it adds about 10 lbs for me), and i've squatted more in the past (1RM of about 365 lbs, but powerlifting-style and with knee wraps, about 2 years ago). Current max is with shoulder-width stance, ass-to-grass.[/less relevant information]

So how should the Snatch and Clean&Jerk be programmed here? Since i only have one heavy day of Olyfting, should i try to max out on both in the same day? Glenn's article (the other one) states that Snatch and CJ should be about 60% and 80% of the back squat respectively.. well for me currently it's obviously not even a possibility. I lack any coaching and do power versions (short split snatch, power clean+short split jerk). 135lbs Snatch was veeery hard for me, 175 double on pc+jerk a bit better but still.

I was thinking about using the scheme from, again, one of the Glenn's articles, (http://www.pendlay.com/A-Training-Sy...ers_df_90.html), it uses 5 sets of doubles or 10 singles. But i'm unsure if it applies to the case when you max on both SN and CJ in the same day.

I also find that doing a high pull immediately before snatching or cleaning helps me a lot with using better technique. So probably 5 sets of 1 pull+2 snatches is what i'm looking at? Same with CJ?

How should the weight increase between heavy workouts (Saturdays)? 5lbs, 10lbs, percentage of weekly squat RM?

Tuesday is technique day, so the weight probably will be light enough to not be a relevant factor..

I think it is pretty hard to plan to increase your max, especially by 50lbs in 6 weeks. that's a tonne of weight, but depends on previous training history etc. as you mentioned you had a 365lb lbbs so maybe it's doable. the high pull before lift is good for me, I find it ingrains the tecnique for the lift

[glennpendlay]

Originally Posted by Aldwyn

So for example -



[less relevant information]In 9 weeks, *ideal scenario*, progression on strength goes as following - bench press from 185 to 225 (5 lbs/week), squat from 235 to 315 (10 lbs/week), current maxes of 200 and 265 hit on 4th week. Might be a bit more realistic than it looks, because the 200 5RM bench was with feet on the bench (been benching like that for about a year, now planning to go back to normal benching. The last time i checked it adds about 10 lbs for me), and i've squatted more in the past (1RM of about 365 lbs, but powerlifting-style and with knee wraps, about 2 years ago). Current max is with shoulder-width stance, ass-to-grass.[/less relevant information]

So how should the Snatch and Clean&Jerk be programmed here? Since i only have one heavy day of Olyfting, should i try to max out on both in the same day? Glenn's article (the other one) states that Snatch and CJ should be about 60% and 80% of the back squat respectively.. well for me currently it's obviously not even a possibility. I lack any coaching and do power versions (short split snatch, power clean+short split jerk). 135lbs Snatch was veeery hard for me, 175 double on pc+jerk a bit better but still.

I was thinking about using the scheme from, again, one of the Glenn's articles, (http://www.pendlay.com/A-Training-Sy...ers_df_90.html), it uses 5 sets of doubles or 10 singles. But i'm unsure if it applies to the case when you max on both SN and CJ in the same day.

I also find that doing a high pull immediately before snatching or cleaning helps me a lot with using better technique. So probably 5 sets of 1 pull+2 snatches is what i'm looking at? Same with CJ?

How should the weight increase between heavy workouts (Saturdays)? 5lbs, 10lbs, percentage of weekly squat RM?

Tuesday is technique day, so the weight probably will be light enough to not be a relevant factor..

It is a LOT harder to use linear planning with the olympic lifts, simply because of the technical component.

I would suggest you start out just doing sets across with a comfortable weight, and increase it as you are able.

Once you have reset your squats a couple of times, you will notice that the days/weeks when the squat is reset and lower than max you will feel the most able to take a run at a new max single or double on the Olympic lifts. I suggest that when you feel able, take a shot at it. When you do not feel able, just get the work done with a doable weight for whatever sets and reps you are using for that particular day.

[WhiskeyWebber]

Originally Posted by glennpendlay

It is a LOT harder to use linear planning with the olympic lifts, simply because of the technical component.

I would suggest you start out just doing sets across with a comfortable weight, and increase it as you are able.

Once you have reset your squats a couple of times, you will notice that the days/weeks when the squat is reset and lower than max you will feel the most able to take a run at a new max single or double on the Olympic lifts. I suggest that when you feel able, take a shot at it. When you do not feel able, just get the work done with a doable weight for whatever sets and reps you are using for that particular day.

This makes so much sense to me right now! I think this is the only forum post that I need to read for the next six months.