Yes, we can win medals at Worlds and Olympics

[COACHMCCAULEY]

Originally Posted by jlesko

Well said Don. Could not agree more.
Additionally (in response to previous discussion), I dont think that many people have a problem with Crossfit. If you ask people around me, they will say that I hate Crossfit when actually on paper, I think Crossfit is a good system. It is the practitioners that I and I would think many others have problems with. I believe a little more emphasis on technique would do a lot for reputation. It is actually quite refreshing and exciting that many Crossfits are offering Olifting classes. As more Crossfits do this and start requiring Olifting classes in some capacity, we will really start seeing some talent.
I would actually be interested in the numbers that compare USAW membership growth over the past 10 years year to year.

jlesko:

It's true that some of the CrossFitters are a bit overboard in their enthusiasm about their newfound skills. And, it is true that some of the olympic weightlifting establishment are a bit to hard on the "NEW KID ON THE BLOCK". Frankly, over the years(long before CrossFit)I've said that some olympic coaches were way to elitist and hurt the sport with their refusal to accept other athletes into their gyms for training unless they would ONLY do olympic weightlifting. So, there is a bit of overboard behavior on both sides.

As far as the lifting technique of Crossfitters and their trainers(who only get a part of a weekend to learn the lifts in their general cert.), I would say that considering that CrossFitters have many skills to learn, the technique I have seen in olympic lifting, overall, is not that bad.

Compared, for instance, to the overall technique I see among olympic lifters(taught by specifically certified coaches who have coached it for years), who only concentrate on that one skill, CrossFitters are not that bad.

And, as M.M. points out, the numbers CrossFit has added to the USAW is very substancial.

CoachMc

[Whitney]

Originally Posted by COACHMCCAULEY

jlesko:

It's true that some of the CrossFitters are a bit overboard in their enthusiasm about their newfound skills. And, it is true that some of the olympic weightlifting establishment are a bit to hard on the "NEW KID ON THE BLOCK". Frankly, over the years(long before CrossFit)I've said that some olympic coaches were way to elitist and hurt the sport with their refusal to accept other athletes into their gyms for training unless they would ONLY do olympic weightlifting. So, there is a bit of overboard behavior on both sides.

As far as the lifting technique of Crossfitters and their trainers(who only get a part of a weekend to learn the lifts in their general cert.), I would say that considering that CrossFitters have many skills to learn, the technique I have seen in olympic lifting, overall, is not that bad.

Compared, for instance, to the overall technique I see among olympic lifters(taught by specifically certified coaches who have coached it for years), who only concentrate on that one skill, CrossFitters are not that bad.

And, as M.M. points out, the numbers CrossFit has added to the USAW is very substancial.

CoachMc

as somebody who teaches olifting technique both to their trainers (train the trainer) and their athletes, i have been pleasantly surprised.

one thing is that burgener is a big influence in xfit. i've never attended his training, but he apparently (according to them) teaches a jump-shrug style and his burgener warmup also emphasizes that. again, that's what xfitters have told me, i've never attended his training

i recently did a seminar at a local xfit and used ample video evidence as well as physics to demonstrate why jump/shrug was suboptimal and taught them proper technique and they were very receptive.

and yes, i have seen some very good technique from some xfitters. one guy at the box i taught at has GREAT TECHNIQUE, but he was taught by john thrush (like me), so that's a given

[slowjoe]

Originally Posted by COACHMCCAULEY

oly,

The advent of CrossFit is something that is key to future success in the U.S. in weightlifing(if they can only see it). The reasons are simple. The first is that the oly. lifts have been made(properly) a critical part of everybody's overall fitness level in Crossfit. This already has affected the number of people in the country who know that these lifts exist. The second reason is that it will continue to increase the number of lifters in the sport itself, which will lead to more money for the NGB of weightlifting. This money should add up to more stipends for the athletes, based on performance. That, in turn, will make it easier to recruit athletes into the sport for the long term(monetary reward for performance is the only thing in the last 25 years that led to a great general increase in performance levels in weightlifting/when they took them away, the sport started to descend).

And, you're exactly right in that sooner or later, the gifted lifter will show up. If the organization can offer him a reasonable life and good training situation, we will keep him/her (or, luckily, them)and our international standing will rise.

Intelligent recruiting with graduated rewards for performance is the only way to get back to the highest levels. I only hope someone figures out how to drag the USAW into doing something like that. My feeling is that it will have to come from the outside, since the organization is in a freefall, as far as effectiveness in doing anything(hell, they didn't even think to have flowers and some little gifts for the Olympic Team qualifiers at the Trials-totally embarrassing-after a very good competition--I mean, really, they knew that there were going to be 2 qualifiers. Some flowers and umbrellas were too hard to manage????).

CoachMc

I would agree 100% with this. A parallel organisation with a name like "Friends of US Weightlifting" is needed to arrange and coordinate relatively informal meets, with the agenda of getting as many Crossfitters to come and play as possible.

In fact, don't even call them meets, call them "PR parties", and celebrate each PR, with a novelty prizes like "prettiest PR". Any lifting gym with two of more Crossfit boxes should coordinate these things a few times a year. If you have these happening across the country, it can be like golf, where there is essentially a handicap to level the playing field.

The important thing is to get people to compete in their first 2-3 meets IMO.

[BSmith]

possibly playing either the realist or the devil's advocate here:

I just don't see the US winning any medals any time soon (in weightlifting).

First, our current pool of athletes: Even with our best chances this year (the +75 women), the totals posted at 2011 worlds compared to their 2012 Nationals totals, Our best lifter would place 9th amongst the world. Our best male lifter would place in the high teens.

Second, Our potential pool of athletes: Any kid growing up would be stupid to not invest his talents in any of the high paying professional sports we have in this country vs. weightlifting. I would imagine some of the top football players could probably lift a pretty good amount of weight if they were weightlifters, but getting paid anything to play football beats getting paid nothing to lift weights every day of the week. In other countries, weightlifting is their football, therefore their best athletes are lifting weights.

Lastly, any way you want to look at the PED argument, its obviously a factor. One need to look no further than Rachel Crass's Strength+ article on her experience at Worlds and the rampant dealing of the newest PEDs that goes on there. How other countries were flat out confused that Americans were clean.

The argument for starting kids younger here can be presented, but we have guys now who have been lifting since they were young, and they are still 20-50kg off the pace of the world.

I'm sure many more reasons can be presented, but imo that's the realist POV.

[Oxman]

Originally Posted by BSmith

possibly playing either the realist or the devil's advocate here:

I just don't see the US winning any medals any time soon (in weightlifting).

First, our current pool of athletes: Even with our best chances this year (the +75 women), the totals posted at 2011 worlds compared to their 2012 Nationals totals, Our best lifter would place 9th amongst the world. Our best male lifter would place in the high teens.

Second, Our potential pool of athletes: Any kid growing up would be stupid to not invest his talents in any of the high paying professional sports we have in this country vs. weightlifting. I would imagine some of the top football players could probably lift a pretty good amount of weight if they were weightlifters, but getting paid anything to play football beats getting paid nothing to lift weights every day of the week. In other countries, weightlifting is their football, therefore their best athletes are lifting weights.

Lastly, any way you want to look at the PED argument, its obviously a factor. One need to look no further than Rachel Crass's Strength+ article on her experience at Worlds and the rampant dealing of the newest PEDs that goes on there. How other countries were flat out confused that Americans were clean.

The argument for starting kids younger here can be presented, but we have guys now who have been lifting since they were young, and they are still 20-50kg off the pace of the world.

I'm sure many more reasons can be presented, but imo that's the realist POV.

This highlighted quote seems to be a big belief of many americans on this forum, but it's just flat out wrong! Weightlifting is not the national sport of European countries! Europe has football and other sports that will pay them a hell of a lot more than weightlifting. In another thread a guy from Poland pointed out that weightlifting is not as big as people think there, and being at uni in England I meet a lot of people from different European countries. I met 2 Bulgarian guys in the gym, they are at least aware of the lifts but they didn't know top lifters from their country, and these are regular gym goers who know their way around the weight room. The Greek guys I've met know who Dimas is but that's about as far as it goes.

Now I'm not saying these countries don't support their athletes better than the US, but kids in these countries do not have weightlifting posters on their walls and they do not all want to grow up to become lifters. Weightlifters can make a better living than in the US but they are still dwarfed by the wages of athletes in their pro sports!

You hear stories of how athlete X made a lot of money for getting a gold medal but then US track athletes make a lot of money if they can get gold as well. And I'm sure if a US lifter actually won golds consistently they would get quite a bit more money too

[olympicweightlifting123]

Originally Posted by Oxman

This highlighted quote seems to be a big belief of many americans on this forum, but it's just flat out wrong! Weightlifting is not the national sport of European countries! Europe has football and other sports that will pay them a hell of a lot more than weightlifting. In another thread a guy from Poland pointed out that weightlifting is not as big as people think there, and being at uni in England I meet a lot of people from different European countries. I met 2 Bulgarian guys in the gym, they are at least aware of the lifts but they didn't know top lifters from their country, and these are regular gym goers who know their way around the weight room. The Greek guys I've met know who Dimas is but that's about as far as it goes.

Now I'm not saying these countries don't support their athletes better than the US, but kids in these countries do not have weightlifting posters on their walls and they do not all want to grow up to become lifters. Weightlifters can make a better living than in the US but they are still dwarfed by the wages of athletes in their pro sports!

You hear stories of how athlete X made a lot of money for getting a gold medal but then US track athletes make a lot of money if they can get gold as well. And I'm sure if a US lifter actually won golds consistently they would get quite a bit more money too

This is something that I have alluded to before. Weightlifting is not big in Russia. I was born in belarus and weightlifting is (relatively speaking) much more popular there. Kids were recruited constantly in belarus, not something you generally saw in Russia. My dad was actually recruited out of a whole school but his father (my grandfather) didn't allow it. Funny thing is my dad looks exactly like yurik vardanian haha, the resemblance was almost uncanny when vardanian was young. The biggest factor in my opinion, is time. Jon north and shankle are technically potential olympic champions but time was not on their side. Without PED's, if they started from a much younger age, you would see very competitive totals. There is a huge difference between lifting for 20 years and lifting for under 10. We just need time.

We aren't winning because of lack of PED's. Although that is a major factor. It's been an observational fact, that if you come to the weightlifting game late, you will need PED's to have a big total (but that is not set in stone either). Usually, you just have to put in work, work and more work.

How old is John BTW? I'm sure he has at least 5 years left. Absolutely no way he is snatching 160 in 5 years, Def. much more. All we can do is try, we never know what we can truly do.

[Daniel Bell]

"I just don't see the US winning any medals any time soon (in weightlifting).

First, our current pool of athletes: Even with our best chances this year (the +75 women), the totals posted at 2011 worlds compared to their 2012 Nationals totals, Our best lifter would place 9th amongst the world. Our best male lifter would place in the high teens."

Aaaaactually . . . I think we have a fighting chance to medal at this Olympics if things fall our way.

1. Both Sarah Robles and Holley Mangold posted PR's at Trials. Both have totals going in the right direction regularly, especially Holley.

2. It is about 15 weeks until they lift. Both are capable of 260 right now. I think Holley has more in the tank and she tends to be a meet lifter. With that much time, and on the biggest stage of their lives, 120/150 is not that much of a reach for either of them.

3. 270 won bronze in Beijing, 273 won bronze at the 2011 Worlds.

4. Depending on who gets scared off/busted in pre-Olympic drug testing, chances look even better.

So, no, I don't think it is ridiculous at all to think we can medal. A little luck, leave it all on the platform and we'll see. And both women should be around for Rio and even better, with a lot of talent pushing them. Things look bright to me.

Dan

[coachd50]

The TOUGHEST hurdle to overcome is making weightlifting IMPORTANT and POPULAR. Just look at the Lindsay Taylor/crazy WOD thread. While the truth is only known to a few people, based on the items stated in the thread, it does seem apparent that Lindsay DID perform that Regional crossfit challenge right before the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP in weightlifting. I think that about says it all with regards to the importance of weightlifting.

As a football coach, the "hot" strategy to turn around teams with low participation/success has been to run a "spread passing" offense and get the "basketball type kids out". This hasn't led to much success however, because the coaches soon discover that football is NOT IMPORTANT to those players, and when the going gets tough, they go back to the field house.

[nonfcomm]

Originally Posted by Oxman

This highlighted quote seems to be a big belief of many americans on this forum, but it's just flat out wrong! Weightlifting is not the national sport of European countries! Europe has football and other sports that will pay them a hell of a lot more than weightlifting. In another thread a guy from Poland pointed out that weightlifting is not as big as people think there, and being at uni in England I meet a lot of people from different European countries. I met 2 Bulgarian guys in the gym, they are at least aware of the lifts but they didn't know top lifters from their country, and these are regular gym goers who know their way around the weight room. The Greek guys I've met know who Dimas is but that's about as far as it goes.

Now I'm not saying these countries don't support their athletes better than the US, but kids in these countries do not have weightlifting posters on their walls and they do not all want to grow up to become lifters. Weightlifters can make a better living than in the US but they are still dwarfed by the wages of athletes in their pro sports!

You hear stories of how athlete X made a lot of money for getting a gold medal but then US track athletes make a lot of money if they can get gold as well. And I'm sure if a US lifter actually won golds consistently they would get quite a bit more money too

I have a couple of thoughts/want to play devil's advocate for a moment.

First, the type of athletes who succeed in soccer are very different than the type of athletes who succeed in weightlifting. Messi aside, short, quick guys rarely go very far in soccer. Also, I'm sure there are many athletes who (like myself) moved to weightlifting from sports like soccer because they aren't predisposed to being able to run for 90 minutes.

With regards to track athletes in the US, there isn't necessarily more funding for individual athletes, but there is a lot more infrastructure. Track athletes start in junior high, at the latest, and continue to compete in school through college. Their schools provide equipment and some amount of funding through scholarships. By the time a track athlete leaves college, they are ~22 y/o, have had ~10 years of coaching and competing, and should have a good idea of whether or not they have a chance of competing on the largest stage or should just get a job.

Even Olympic sports that tend to be separate from schools, such as swimming, speed skating, skiing, hockey, etc., there is availability of clubs and coaching, and some amount of culture around the sport in the States. While few kids join local swim clubs because swimming is a popular sport, they do join because they have friends/parents/family who swam and the infrastructure exists. That kind of infrastructure/culture/support simply doesn't exist for weightlifting. Hopefully, CF continues to change that.

[Koing]

It's all about having young lifters. Imagine what the top 5 US lifters would be like if they started at 10...imagine if you had 100's of kids lifting as 10yrs old and imagine the drop out rate, but you would still be left with a lot more lifters then if you had 50 young kids.

I think I was pretty much the 3rd oldest guy at the British. One was Tommy Yule and another an ex Olypian making a come back. I'm only 28...a lot of lifters die away before Uni and loads after Uni. There is a pick up of lifters at Uni but if they start at 18-19 it's a bit late to be World Class by then unless your a freak show lifter.

There is definitely talent but just imagine how much better they would be if they started 5-8yrs earlier.

Little bro started at 11. He is one of the best juniors in the country at 17 now. Our club use to have 2 other school boy champs as well, but they both weren't dedicated enough and quit after about 4yrs as it started to get harder. My bro started to blow by them, where one of them was use to out lift him all the time as he was bigger and stronger.

We have a lifters son and he has about 2yrs under his belt at 12 or so. Looks very promising and if he sticks with it he will go far. He likes cycling so he may fade away as he gets older...

Koing